Book Group: The God Who Weeps Chapter 4

Welcome to the Book Group discussion of Chapter 4 of The God Who Weeps.  This was a tough chapter for me, not because of the way the authors covered the topic, but because I really struggle with understanding it.  I am an intelligent person, but for whatever reason, I simply cannot wrap my brain around the ideas of repentance and the atonement.  I can draw diagrams and teach a lesson on it saying all the right words, but I don't feel it.  I don't understand it.  That being said, this chapter reviewed a few ideas that have helped me in the past and it allowed me to look at a some things in new ways. This post may have even more quotes than usual as I point out the things that stood out to me.

The heading for this chapter includes this quote

God has the desire and the power to unite and exalt the entire human family in a kingdom of heaven, and except for the most stubbornly unwilling, that will be our destiny.
(page 77)

I love this idea.  God wants me to succeed and I will succeed.  (I'm stubborn, but I wouldn't say stubbornly unwilling).

The authors spend a few pages discussing the fact that God does not punish us for our sins.

The pain associated with sin is the natural consequence of our choices; it is not God's retribution upon the wicked.
(page 80)

I'm totally onboard with this.  Every action has a consequence.  Each choice we make creates ripples of effect in other areas of our lives.  When discussing the unhappiness of sin, the authors say,

We have fallen out of alignment with ourselves, and with our God whose love we crave and whose nature we share.
(page 82) 

As a voice teacher, I talk a lot about alignment.  Proper alignment allows us to breath better, gaining the necessary energy and power needed for singing.  Proper alignment allows the body to function correctly.  Proper alignment releases the voice without any interference.  I've also been thinking a lot lately about aligning my spirit with my mind and my body.  When all three work together, things are good.  When I forget to listen to and really connect with one of them, there is pain or unhappiness.  I'm totally stealing the line, "We have fallen out of alignment with ourselves," and posting it where it can remind me not to lose that alignment.

They also talk a little bit about guilt.  Guilt is a tricky subject.  Too many people in the world now suffer from pathological guilt, guilt that is unnecessary, unwarranted, or not theirs to claim.  And I think it is extremely difficult sometimes to decide if the guilt we feel is godly guilt, intended to set us back on the right path, or guilt that just beats us down and damages us.  I'm not exactly sure how I feel about their discussion of guilt (page 80).  It is marked with a note to come back and think about this more.

As in other chapters, the authors reaffirm here that this life is an educational experience.

How much more meaningful is a life designed for spiritual formation, rather than spiritual evaluation.  All tests evaluate, and life is no exception.  But the most meaningful and productive tests are those that assess with an eye to improvement, that measure in order to remedy, and that improve and prepare us for the next stage in an upward process of advancement.  For these reasons, all talk of heaven that operates in terms of earning rather than becoming is misguided.  Such ideas misconstrue the nature of God, His Grace, and the salvation he offers.
(page 87)

The rest of the chapter digs into the topics of repentance, atonement, and salvation, topics that as I said earlier, I don't really understand.

This statement, however, is beautiful and the perfect way to wrap up this chapter post:

If God's dominion does not end with our death, why should the progress of the human soul?
(page 98).  

Questions for discussion or personal reflection:

1.  What are your beliefs about Heaven and how we get there?

2.  Do you use guilt in healthy ways to get you back on track, or does guilt seem to trap you in the negative situation?

3.  What does salvation mean to you?  

4.  What does exaltation mean to you?  

5.  How does the atonement help you?  

6.  What things spoke to you in this chapter?

7.  What things bothered you or left you with questions?  

Book Group: The God Who Weeps Chapter 2

Chapter 2 of The God Who Weeps deals with our existence before this life.  While the authors and I agree that we did exist before we were born on this earth, we have apparently come to that conclusion through different processes.  The bulk of the chapter deals consists of the authors explaining that if we feel X, then a pre-mortal existence is the best explanation.

The authors speak of a longing and of feeling lost, not quite at home in this earthy sphere.  They ask,

Who has never felt the utter inadequacy of the world to satisfy the spiritual longings of our nature?
(page 40)

The answer is me.  Maybe I misunderstood the question. I've often found answers in the world that satisfy my longing and make me feel not so lost.  Nevertheless, I can see how a longing for something more might reflect a memory of something we once had.

One idea that I do agree with is the feeling that I am more than just this body.  There is something that is beyond my body and my mind that is the real me.

The discussion of free will and guilt as evidence of a pre-mortal life did not connect with me.  Again, for some people, and obviously for the authors, this makes sense.

The strongest, most powerful parts of this chapter come at the end when they stop trying to convince us of the pre-existence and just state how we benefit from that belief.  On this, we are in full agreement.

...it suggests that birth into this world represents a step forwarding an eternal process of development and growth, not a descent or regression from a primal goodness.  God's work is therefore first and foremost educative and constructive, not reparative.
(page 52)

We are here to learn and progress.  We are not here because Adam and Eve messed up and because of that all mankind must be punished.  Leaving the garden was a chance for them to grow to progress.

If we existed before, if God did not create the essence of who we are, but merely gave us a chance to move forward, it changes everything.

Soberingly, if we are co-eternal with God, then it is not God's creation of the human out of nothing that defines our essential relationship to him.  It is His freely made choice to inaugurate and sustain loving relationships, and our choice to reciprocate, that are at the core of our relationship to the Divine.
(page 53)

God chose to love us, and we choose to love him, setting love at the center of everything.

Questions for discussion and personal reflection

1.  Do you believe you existed before you were born?  What experiences or ideas brought you to this conclusion?

2.  Do you feel like you have lost something?  Do you have a longing for wholeness that is best explained by a belief in a pre-mortal life?

3.  Do you feel that there is more to you than just your body and mind?  

4.  How do you feel about the idea that God's work is primarily instructive rather than reparative?  

5.  How can God be both co-eternal with us and our creator?  

6.  What things did you like about this chapter?  

7.  What things didn't sit well with you about this chapter?